Friday, November 30, 2007

Parent/Teacher Conference

My family and I live in a small town. We are about 30 miles away from Hartford (which is the major City close by). My son's school was holding parent teacher conferences this past week and Wednesday at 5:20 was our time!

My husband picked up our son and I was going to meet them there. I was late of course, TRAFFIC! Anyway, when I got there the parking lot was full so I had to park on the street. This would be my first time going to my son's school in niqab let alone hijab, so that walk up to the door was a scary moment. As I walked in the front door I saw that they had set up a book fair and there were about 30 people looking at the displays. Well when I walked in, it went silent. People stopped what they were doing to look at me. As I continued along the group of people parted like the red sea! Mothers snatching their children out of my way... it was amazing. I kept walking and encountered more double takes and mouth-agape stares as I made my way to my son's classroom. When I got to the classroom I went right in, and got the same kind of look from his teacher. She and I have had issue before so I'm sure she was shocked by how I dressed. Anyway, the highlight of the evening was when my son said... look at mommy's clothes, isn't she pretty!

I'm wondering how my little town will take this invasion! I am looking forward to seeing the next town newspaper, perhaps there will be a letter to the editor about the veiled women at the elementary school! :)


Hannah said...


Wow, that must have been ...uh...awkward LOL. Reminds me of the episode of Little Mosque when the mysterious niqaabi comes into town and the reaction was about the same. What you son said was so cute!!

Modern Muslimah said...


Yeah, that sounded pretty awkward indeed. At least your son broke the ice. That was so cute. :-)

Sometimes, I wish could realize that there are human beings under niqab and not aliens. *sigh*

Liberal Revert said...

No offense sister, but it is understandable why you are getting stared at. The Sunnah CLEARLY says that a girl can show her face and her hands. Muhammad(pbuh) said to cover everything EXCEPT those areas. So why are you taking things to an extreme? You know that the Qu'ran says not to over burden yourself and the Hadiths in Sahih say that religion is made to be EASY so do not over exceed. Hijab is necessary no doubt, but niqab is not. If anything you are attracting even more attention which could cause zinah and rape. I am sorry if I am offending you, but I truly feel that you are taking things to an extreme, and it is unislamic.

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: Asma bint Abu Bakr, entered upon the Apostle of Allah wearing thin clothes. The Apostle of Allah turned his attention from her. He said: O Asma', when a woman reaches the age of menstruation, it does not suit her that she displays her parts of body except this and this, and he pointed to her face and hands. Sunnan Abu Dawud 32:4092

I respect your decision, but feel you are going overboard. I think Muslims need to relax more and quit over burdening theirselves, when it is unislamic.

Jamilah said...

Liberal Revert

That hadith is weak... just an FYI

Liberal Revert said...

Sister I want to first off say i am sorry for approaching this situation in such a rude way with my previous post.

You are correct that some scholars do say that the Hadith I posted is daeef. But, also remember that the Hadiths about niqab are also daeef.
the 4 Madhabs all agree that your face and hands are not part of your 'awrah. The Hanafi school also says that your feet are not either. These scholars are the true Salaf. They were born within the time Muhammad(saws) stated the best generations of Muslims would be. Heretics like Ibn abdul Wahhab did not come until much later, and acted like Islam had been corrupted, although the true Salaf(the followers of the 4 Madhabs) are alive and well.

Since you are a Wahhabi, I will give you a link to what a Wahhabi scholar says on the issue of hijab and niqab. The reason is because I feel you will accept the authenticity more so. Here is an article on Billal Phillips website, though it is from Sheikh Al-Albaanee, one of the most well respected Wahhabi scholars of the 20th century.

Jamilah said...

I'm not a wahhabi

Liberal Revert said...

Sister, you are a Salafi correct? Many people term Salafi's as Wahhbi's, including me. Sorry if that offened you. Either way, if you are a Salafi, then you follow the strict thought that some like to call a "Wahabbi." If I am wrong and you are not a Salafi as in one's that follow Ibn Abdul Wahhab and are majority in Saudi Arabia, then please correct me and tell me what you follow!

Jamilah said...

Dear Brother, I'm a muslim. I tend to learn and read from some of the older scholars. Salafi is a term that has been abused. I would like to say that I follow the ways of the salaf.

It does not offend me that you say Wahabbi... but I think you think of it in bad terms. I do take accept ion to the fact that you called Ibn abdul Wahhab a heretic. In his time he was trying to bring his brothers and sisters back to the true Islam. He is not extreme, strict or what ever you want to call it.

I recognize that there are a lot of people who think Islam needs 'modernizing'. I am not one of those people.

Yes, Ibn Abbas did not find covering the face to be obligatory, but there are plenty of scholars that do. Abbas's view did state that if there was a chance of fitnah that you should cover the face, so he was not opposed to it at all.

I have read many things on the subject and I find it to be an obligation. That does not mean I don't respect the opinions of other, but it is what I find to be true.

If people are uncomfortable or awkward around me... that is not my concern. We are here for one thing... to worship Allah (swt), so do I please those people, or him?

May Allah guide you and bless you.

Muhammed said...

(1) Narrated 'Aisha: The wives of the Prophet used to go to Al-Manasi, a vast open place (near Baqia at Medina) to answer the call of nature at night. 'Umar used to say to the Prophet "Let your wives be veiled," but Allah's Apostle did not do so. One night Sauda bint Zam'a the wife of the Prophet went out at 'Isha' time and she was a tall lady. 'Umar addressed her and said, "I have recognized you, O Sauda." He said so, as he desired eagerly that the verses of Al-hijab (the observing of veils by the Muslim women) may be revealed. So Allah revealed the verses of "Al-hijab" (A complete body cover excluding the eyes). (Book #4, Hadith #148)

(2) Narrated 'Aisha: Whenever the Prophet intended to proceed on a journey, he used to draw lots amongst his wives and would take the one upon whom the lot fell. Once, before setting out for Jihad, he drew lots amongst us and the lot came to me; so I went with the Prophet; and that happened after the revelation of the Verse hijab (i.e. veiling). (Book #52, Hadith #130)

(3) Narrated Anas: Umar said, "I agreed with Allah in three things," or said, "My Lord agreed with me in three things. I said, 'O Allah's Apostle! Would that you took the station of Abraham as a place of prayer.' I also said, 'O Allah's Apostle! Good and bad persons visit you! Would that you ordered the Mothers of the believers to cover themselves with veils.' So the Divine Verses of Al-hijab (i.e. veiling of the women) were revealed. I came to know that the Prophet had blamed some of his wives so I entered upon them and said, 'You should either stop (troubling the Prophet ) or else Allah will give His Apostle better wives than you.' When I came to one of his wives, she said to me, 'O 'Umar! Does Allah's Apostle haven't what he could advise his wives with, that you try to advise them?' " Thereupon Allah revealed:-- "It may be, if he divorced you (all) his Lord will give him instead of you, wives better than you Muslims (who submit to Allah).." (66.5) (Book #60, Hadith #10)

(4) Narrated Umar: I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Good and bad persons enter upon you, so I suggest that you order the mothers of the Believers (i.e. your wives) to observe veils." Then Allah revealed the Verses of Al-hijab. (Book #60, Hadith #313)

(5) Narrated Anas bin Malik: I of all the people know best this verse of Al-hijab. When Allah's Apostle married Zainab bint Jahsh she was with him in the house and he prepared a meal and invited the people (to it). They sat down (after finishing their meal) and started chatting. So the Prophet went out and then returned several times while they were still sitting and talking. So Allah revealed the Verse: 'O you who believe! Enter not the Prophet's houses until leave is given to you for a meal, (and then) not (so early as) to wait for its preparation .....ask them from behind a screen.' (33.53) So the screen was set up and the people went away. (Book #60, Hadith #315)

(6) Narrated Anas: A banquet of bread and meat was held on the occasion of the marriage of the Prophet to Zainab bint Jahsh. I was sent to invite the people (to the banquet), and so the people started coming (in groups); They would eat and then leave. Another batch would come, eat and leave. So I kept on inviting the people till I found nobody to invite. Then I said, "O Allah's Prophet! I do not find anybody to invite." He said, "Carry away the remaining food." Then a batch of three persons stayed in the house chatting. The Prophet left and went towards the dwelling place of Aisha and said, "Peace and Allah's Mercy be on you, O the people of the house!" She replied, "Peace and the mercy of Allah be on you too. How did you find your wife? May Allah bless you. Then he went to the dwelling places of all his other wives and said to them the same as he said to Aisha and they said to him the same as Aisha had said to him. Then the Prophet returned and found a group of three persons still in the house chatting. The Prophet was a very shy person, so he went out (for the second time) and went towards the dwelling place of 'Aisha. I do not remember whether I informed him that the people have gone away. So he returned and as soon as he entered the gate, he drew the curtain between me and him, and then the Verse of Al-hijab was revealed. (Book #60, Hadith #316)

(7) Narrated Anas: When Allah's Apostle married Zainab bint Jahsh, he made the people eat meat and bread to their fill (by giving a Walima banquet). Then he went out to the dwelling places of the mothers of the believers (his wives), as he used to do in the morning of his marriage. He would greet them and invoke good on them, and they (too) would return his greeting and invoke good on him. When he returned to his house, he found two men talking to each other; and when he saw them, he went out of his house again. When those two men saw Allah's Apostle: going out of his house, they quickly got up (and departed). I do not remember whether I informed him of their departure, or he was informed (by somebody else). So he returned, and when he entered the house, he lowered the curtain between me and him. Then the Verse of Al-hijab was revealed. (Book #60, Hadith #317)

(8) Narrated 'Aisha: Aflah, the brother of Abi Al-Quais, asked permission to visit me after the order of Al-hijab was revealed. I said, "I will not permit him unless I take permission of the Prophet about him for it was not the brother of Abi Al-Qu'ais but the wife of Abi Al-Qu'ais that nursed me." The Prophet entered upon me, and I said to him, "O Allah's Apostle! Allah, the brother of Abi Al-Qu'ais asked permission to visit me but I refused to permit him unless I took your permission." The Prophet said, "What stopped you from permitting him? He is your uncle." I said, "O Allah's Apostle! The man was not the person who had nursed me, but the woman, the wife of Abi Al-Qu'ais had nursed me." He said, "Admit him, for he is your uncle. Taribat Yaminuki (may your right hand be saved)" 'Urwa, the sub-narrator added: For that 'Aisha used to say, "Consider those things which are illegal because of blood relations as illegal because of the corresponding foster relations." (Book #60, Hadith #319)

(9) Narrated Aisha: that Aflah the brother of Abu Al-Qu'ais, her foster uncle, came, asking permission to enter upon her after the Verse of Al-hijab (the use of veils by women) was revealed. 'Aisha added: I did not allow him to enter, but when Allah's Apostle came, I told him what I had done, and he ordered me to give him permission. (Book #62, Hadith #40)

(10) Narrated Anas bin Malik: I was ten years old when Allah's Apostle arrived at Medina. My mother and aunts used to urge me to serve the Prophet regularly, and I served him for ten years. When the Prophet died I was twenty years old, and I knew about the order of Al-hijab (veiling of ladies) more than any other person when it was revealed. It was revealed for the first time when Allah's Apostle had consummated his marriage with Zainab bint Jahsh. When the day dawned, the Prophet was a bridegroom and he invited the people to a banquet, so they came, ate, and then all left except a few who remained with the Prophet for a long time. The Prophet got up and went out, and I too went out with him so that those people might leave too. The Prophet proceeded and so did I, till he came to the threshold of 'Aisha's dwelling place. Then thinking that these people have left by then, he returned and so did I along with him till he entered upon Zainab and behold, they were still sitting and had not gone. So the Prophet again went away and I went away along with him. When we reached the threshold of 'Aisha's dwelling place, he thought that they had left, and so he returned and I too, returned along with him and found those people had left. Then the Prophet drew a curtain between me and him, and the Verses of Al-hijab were revealed. (Book #62, Hadith #95)

Liberal Revert said...

Asalaamu Alaikum wa Barakhatu sister Jamilah.

I do not see Ibn Abdul Wahhab as a bad person. I know his intentions were definetely good. That being said, I disagree with his teachings. At least some of them. But, as you put in one of your newest posts, you quoted a Hadith from the Prophet(saws) about the different opinions, and how it is sometimes ok to disagree, as long as we have good intentions and try our best to derive our views from the Sunnah and the Qu'ran.

You also say that Islam does not need to modernize, but what do you mean by that? I too agree that Iskam should not change, as it is the perfect religion of Allah(Surah 5 aya 4)

At the same time, we must not take things to the extreme. The Sunnah is VERY clear about condemning extremism. The Prophet(saws) said that religion is made to be simple, so don't take it to an extreme. Praise be to Allah for not over burdening us!

So I agree that we should not have to change to fit others needs. But I see modernization as TV, computer, radio. These things are acceptable in Islam in my view(with the proper limits of course) and so I don't think we should be like the "Haram police" and label everything as Haram without Sunnah/Qu'ran to back it up. So please elaborate what you mean by modernization. I think that Islam CAN be modern, but we may have a different view of what modern actually means.

Now, to Brother Muhammad and to Jamilah as well. You both seem to hold the view that Niqab is obligatory in Islam, and brother Muhammad, you even show several Hadiths about it. But we must understand that there are conflicting Hadiths on the issue. Many great scholars like Sheikh Al Albani, Bilal Philips, Faraz Rabbani, Hamza Karamali, and many others that say that Niqab is NOT obligatory. While at the same time there are scholars like Nuh Keller and Muhammad al-Munajjid who say it IS obligatory. Allah Alim. However, I will stick with what my Madhab usually agrees on: Hijab obligatory, Niqab optional. This was the opinion of Abu Hanifa, so I will stick with that. I have seen an article with every Hadith that mentions Niqab being rebutted. At the same time, I have seen sites where the ahadith on hijab are being discussed. So, as I mentioned earlier, Allah Alim!

Asalaamu Alaikum wa Barakhatu

Umar said...

assalamu alaikum

Brother LR, first I want to correct your use of the term Wahhabi. Salafis are only called Wahhabis by people who are just regurgitating the idiocy of the mainstream media. Salafis are not followers of Muhammad ibn abd al Wahhab, they simply believe in following Qur'an and Sunnah and following the example of the first 3 generations of Muslims as the Prophet (saws) told us that they are the best generations. It happens that Wahhab called people to the same path and if you read his books, he writes almost nothing of his own, he just sites hadith and Qur'an and occasionally adds a few comments. Calling Salafis Wahhabi just gives ammunition to those that want to destroy Islam.

Regarding modernization, I think my wife, Jamilah, is referring to modernization of the religion, not modernization in the dunya. We are not saying we shouldn't have electricity, lights, cars, computers, etc just that we don't need to change the rules of Islam to fit what "modern society" sees as appropriate. This is another mistake that people get from the media. They propagate this idea that those they call Wahhabis want to take us back 1400 years in everything. Salafis only want to worship Allah (swt) as he was worshiped by Muslims 1400 years ago.

Anonymous said...

Salaam LiberalRevert

If the sister chooses to wear a niqaab then let her wear the niqaab. If the sister wants to be like the Prophet sallallahu allaihi wasallam's wives, more power to her and that's her prerogative.

She respects my decision to wear hijab with no niqaab, and I respect hers to wear the niqaab. If I want to wear a burka I can do that too.

What business is it of yours?


burningmoon said...

Mr. Liberal Revert, according to hanafi madhab Niqab is obligatory. Please do not defame the Hanafis.

The ijma of scholars of four schools of thought supports the niqab.

And the wives of Prophet sallallahualaihiwassallam wore the niqab.

And most imp, the verse of covering up asks the women to pull the cloth from over their head to their chest and not to drape a cloth around it. So obviously Burqah is the perfect cloth meeting that requirement.
Had it been just a head cover, it should have been like wrap a cloth around your head and cover you hair etc.Hence kindly correct yourself.

Hanafis believe niqab is wajib:

Shafis believe Niqab is wajib and so do hanafis

As for wearing niqab (the face veil), this was considered necessary (wajib) by the classical scholars of the Hanafi school, as well as other Sunni schools such as the Shafi`i school. However, this is often not reasonably possible to follow for many people, given their personal, family, or social situation.

The Transmitted Ruling

The transmitted position of the Hanafi school is that a woman?s face, though not considered of a womans nakedness (awrah), is necessary (wajib) to cover because of the fitna involved in not doing so. This mentioned in virtually all its major texts, including the Hashiya of Ibn Abidin, the Hashiya of al-Tahtawi, al-Bahr al-Ra?iq, al-Hidaya, its commentaries, and other texts.

The Ruling For Our Times and Situation

As for what the ruling is in our times, the scholars differ.

Some scholars say that this ruling would remain the basic ruling on the matter. As Shaykh Wahbi Sulayman Ghawji, a Syrian Hanafi scholar of Albanian origin, shows, the evidence for covering the face is far stronger, from the Quran, Sunna, and is the position of the vast majority of classical Quranic exegetes, hadith commentators and jurists.

sheyyab said...

assalmu alikum brothers and sisters,i think no need for this much discussion which going far, every one have the right to follow the school which he prefer. the prophet ( pbuh) orderd us to not go far like this and trying to be agreed nt be differ. thats the meaning of the brotherhood which is the most favour from Allah upun us . i think all of u r good who care to get the righeous way. so plz quite discutions in this case . with my respectfull for all my brothers any where especially in usa. ur brother;firas

Liberal Revert said...

Lots of replies! Insha Allah we will all come out of this discussion learning something, and not come out with disrespect. I love each and every one of you, even if you disagree with me, because you are part of the Ummah, and we as Muslims are friends and protectors over each other. :) Allah alim.

Now, to Umar. Thanks for the clarification. I agree that Islam today should be practiced as it did back then, and we should not make things legal that were once illegal, and things illegal that were once legal. Unless of course we find a very good reason from Qu'ran and Sunnah. Obviously, the first generations were not even perfect. Only Allah is!

I many times mix Salafi with "Wahhabi"(which I know is an offensive name, sorry.) I am mainly talking about like the extremists. Of course, in our times, even the Ummah labels anyone who is extreme as Wahhabi or Salafi. Sorry about that. I know what the meaning really means, and should apply to such.

To sister Hala - I know, she has every right to wear the Niqab. If that makes her happy then good for her!

burningmoon - Once again, there is a difference of opinion, including from the madhabs. I have already listed many scholars who say niqab is not obligatory, and others who have said otherwise. It is one of the most widely discussed topics, and has been for a long time.

Sheyabb - alhumdullillah, great post!

Thank you all, and may Allah(swt) guide us to the Truth, Ameen.